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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes we all know that any caliber Saiga requires the same requisite number of compliance parts for any given stamped receiver AK. Namely, 5 without muzzle brake, 6 with.

Saiga shotguns have the distinction of being an apparent exception to this mindset. The Saiga 12 shotguns require fewer US compliance parts, according to the original ATF Tech Branch response posted on the (now defunct) SoupBowl website. I managed to find an archive copy of the letter and posted it on my website.

The letters are not as readable as I'd like, and I have not yet had the time to resize them and copy the transcript:

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK/docs/legal/partscount.htm

I have uploaded resized and sharpened photos to my gallery here, not sure how readable they are:






The moral of the story is that, according to the tech branch, the Saiga 12 shotgun has only 13 countable parts out of the box! Interesting, no? Apparently the parts are counted differently... I could count them up to 15 parts based on function. That, however, is a discussion for another time.

For the high-cap mag conversion that most people prefer, this means that you need only the mags to meet the "10 or less imported parts" quota. If ever the Tech Branch modifies this parts count, it would be a trivial matter to add more US parts.

Obviously, those who want to create the uber-cool "military" style build will need to check their parts count more closely if they were to use all Russian-built parts. Case in point - most of us will probably use a US-built trigger set simply because they are so nice and easily used. Take that, with the mags or a possible furniture conversion, and it still puts us at < 10 imported parts, even with the additional parts (like muzzle brake, etc).

Let's not forget that our very own Hotbarrel can make pistons for us, so there is another source of US parts.

I have yet to see anything that specifies chokes, etc. as a countable US part, so that one is open for debate.

I am not aware of a rifled barrel for these. Given today's AK smiths know their way around these shotguns, I believe the potential exists for a (US-built!) rifled rebarrel for the slug-only shooter.


Food for thought.
 

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aka: SDK1968
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thats a new outlook to me as well being a saiga 12 owner (if it ever gets here)...

but thank you for it and im gonna copy your pix....
 

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Premium Member
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The only real difference is the lack of a countable trunnion.
In factory configuration there is no PG or MD. Once you add those in, you are back to a normal AK count.

I have never even peeked inside one of these yet, so I have no idea what the barrel mounting arrangement is like, but apparently there is no trunnion.
Mine should be here this week. I'll post more once I get a chance to check it out.
 

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I got the UPS notification that it's been shipped, so I should have it in a couple of days.

I guess that for 922r purposes, we should treat it exactly the same a milled receiver AK.
 

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aka: SDK1968
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wow yours is shipping!! im still 1 down on the list of being converted... another week!!! ugh.
 

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It was a quick ship because it's a stock S12. I'm doing my own conversion. According to UPS, I'll have it Thursday.

I plan on going to the range this weekend and running a few mags through it. I want to make sure that it runs before I tear it apart.
I'll post pics as I progress through the conversion.
 

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aka: SDK1968
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yeah i wanted to do my own but they talked me into letting them do the base conversion and not violating the warranty on it.. (they be an "official" warranty work for rrarms)

still gonna spruce it on up with some external stuff.
 

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I got the UPS notification that it's been shipped, so I should have it in a couple of days.

I guess that for 922r purposes, we should treat it exactly the same a milled receiver AK.

That's right, it shipped and look closely in the box.......there may be present in there for ya........

Scott
 

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Yes we all know that any caliber Saiga requires the same requisite number of compliance parts for any given stamped receiver AK. Namely, 5 without muzzle brake, 6 with.
Your numbers presume that we convert our Saigas upon receipt. Conversion is not required to run afoul of 922r, just the use of 'non sporting magazines'.

To use any magazine over 10 rounds in a factory Saiga rifle, you only need 4 US parts. A gas piston or FCG part will get one up to speed with US made magazines.

The moral of the story is that, according to the tech branch, the Saiga 12 shotgun has only 13 countable parts out of the box!
For factory Saiga shotguns, if you use a higher-than-factory capacity magazine, you need 3 US parts. This means that you can use AGP 10 rounders in your non-choke-equipped factory Saiga shotgun w/o any worries.

Is not a choke a "muzzle attachment" ? Do you have the money to prove it in court? Saiga shotguns with removable chokes have 14 countable parts.
 

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aka: SDK1968
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yeah but at the same time most of us are going after the US made tromix "muzzle attachment" and gas piston plus the US stocks and mags.... still got plenty of parts that way for all the parts counts... they also offer a US made front site now.

there is NO reason that someone cant be compliant on these if they put out minimal effort.
 

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That's right, it shipped and look closely in the box.......there may be present in there for ya........

Scott
A present?...Ohhh, I like presents. Now I'm embarrassed, I didn't get you anything. <>

According to UPS tracking, I'll have it today.
 

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My initial plans include a G-2 FCG, Ace folder, SAW PG and a Galil foregrip. That will give me 6 US parts. If I change my mind on any of those, I'll get HB to whip up a piston.
 

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I am not aware of a rifled barrel for these. Given today's AK smiths know their way around these shotguns, I believe the potential exists for a (US-built!) rifled rebarrel for the slug-only shooter.
I have been eyeballing the 12 and the 20 guage for a rifled slug barrel conversion for deer hunting. a mosburg rifled barrel or a blank ( they are avaliable ) should not be to much of a issue and there US made. one of thes with a good barrel would be pretty slick in shotgun only areas for deer.
some of the new saboted slugs are shooting 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards in good shotguns.
 

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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
one of thes with a good barrel would be pretty slick in shotgun only areas for deer.
some of the new saboted slugs are shooting 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards in good shotguns.
That was exactly my thinking! Here in VA you can only use shottys unless you have a treestand or some other nonsense.

I must admit, I've not hunted in at least the last 10 years that I can think of, and I'm really wanting to get back into it for more meat in the freezer. So this "conversion" has been on my mind quite a bit lately. CAVEAT - One must remember, however, that many shotgun slugs were designed for use in a smooth bore. My dad's double-barrel coach shotgun that looks as old as dirt will group about 3-4 inches at 100 yards. Therefore, it should go without saying that from a performance perspective, it may not be required for optimum performance with a given load.

One additional FYI - my recent research into rifled vs. smooth bores strongly suggests that the QA level of most shotgun barrels are low enough that it literally becomes a question of how does slug X perform in YOUR barrel.
 

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I wonder, can you register rifle/shotgun as an SBR without the current barrel actually being under 16"... because SBRs don't need to comply with 922
 

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sure you can but dont cut the barrel down till you have your approved form 1 in your hand.
 

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I wonder, can you register rifle/shotgun as an SBR without the current barrel actually being under 16"... because SBRs don't need to comply with 922
sure you can but dont cut the barrel down till you have your approved form 1 in your hand.
He doesn't want to cut anything.

He wants to spend $200 and get on the government tax rolls and have a shotgun he has to ask permission to take across state lines, just to save $150 (or less) in 922r parts.
 
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