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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Saddam bids to challenge case in the US


LONDON (AFP) - Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) is preparing a legal challenge in the United States to his trial for war crimes, a newspaper reports, citing leaked papers prepared by his defense team.


Clive Stafford Smith, a British human rights lawyer, has prepared a 50-page brief which contains advice to take the case to US courts to ensure he receives a fair trial, the Sunday Times reported after saying it had seen the document. there's more here @ Free Republic... and here Free Republic Post ...
The lawyers for Saddam Hussein are preparing to turn his trial into the Circus of the Century: Saddam bids to challenge case in the US.

LONDON (AFP) - Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein is preparing a legal challenge in the United States to his trial for war crimes, a newspaper reports, citing leaked papers prepared by his defense team.

Clive Stafford Smith, a British human rights lawyer, has prepared a 50-page brief which contains advice to take the case to US courts to ensure he receives a fair trial, the Sunday Times reported after saying it had seen the document.

The action is to ensure that Saddam receives the basic legal rights given to those tried in the United States, such as full access to his defense team and an independent judge and jury, the newspaper said.

It said the leaked brief is entitled ?The Iraqi Special Tribunal as Victors? Justice ? the Inherent Illegality and Bias of the Whole Process.?

It?s no surprise to discover that Clive Stafford-Smith is a beneficiary of the George Soros Foundation.
 

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Soros and Saddam? Isn't that one in the same?
 

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Good grief! Soros is funding efforts to ensure that Saddam Hussein receives due process of law??? Doesn't he know that American soldiers are fighting and dying in Iraq for summary justice, not for due process of law?
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Please define due process under Iraqi jurisprudence.
 

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Cephus said:
D-sky I think he is getting do process, He's still alive. That's a helleva lot more than he gave most of the people of his country...
Agree with you entirely. My point is simply that that's a good thing, and if we don't want to see Saddam Hussein having an attorney fighting for his case in court we make a mockery of our contending that we are in Iraq to implement due process of law.
 

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Custer said:
Please define due process under Iraqi jurisprudence.
Remains to be revealed, given the lack of a constitution and the lack of much in the way of precendence other than summary execution. Point being that if we are to believe that the US indeed is developing due process of law in Iraq, then that precedent should be ignored, Hussein should not be subject to summary execution and victor's justice, and we instead should see nascent American- style justice, such as development of an adversarial system for determining justice. Which is precisely what this article is reporting.
 

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Cephus said:
D-sky now wait a minute, If he wanted justice he could have made that part of his doctorian when he was in power,but he didn'tt...
Who said that Hussein wanted justice? And who cares? Point is that the Bush Administration says that our occupation troops are there to implement the rule of law and establish justice in Iraq; it's what we want, not what Hussein wants, that matters.
 

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Custer said:
Why should Saddam be tried in the US under US law?
That's a question for the US Attorney General, but I don't think he will be. I think he will be tried in Iraq in courts relying upon US legal traditions to establish justice. I believe we've been training the jurors in Europe, and there's been some difficulties because European nations won't pitch in and help us with the training because the Iraqi court will have the ability to impose the death sentence.
 

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Custer said:
And what was the source of US legal traditions?
What is this, a pop quiz?

Oh, well: My guess would be British common law. Interesting parallel, now that I think of it: The legal traditions of what had been the occupying power.

How'd I do?
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So far so good. So what was a source of English common law traditions?
 

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Custer said:
So far so good. So what was a source of English common law traditions?
Hard for me to come up with an answer that isn't a tautology - i.e. essentially saying that the source of Englich common law traditions is English common law traditions.

I'd say that two sources are case law and customs.

Both of which are English common law traditions, so I really am just making a tautological statement and haven't explained diddly-squat.

But that's one of the fundamental paradoxes of common law.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
For simplicity, I''ll leave out some other influences and stick with the main ones.

Much of English law came from the Romans. The Romans took a lot from the Greeks.

The Greeks took a lot from the Code of Hammurabi which was Mesopotamia/Babylonian.

Iraq is in Mesopotamia and is Babylonian.

Kinda full circle in an ironic way.
 

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Custer said:
For simplicity, I''ll leave out some other influences and stick with the main ones.

Much of English law came from the Romans. The Romans took a lot from the Greeks.

The Greeks took a lot from the Code of Hammurabi which was Mesopotamia/Babylonian.

Iraq is in Mesopotamia and is Babylonian.

Kinda full circle in an ironic way.
Oh, now that is good!

Thanks.

Maybe we should just cut to the chase and re-impose the Code of Hammurabi.

But just for a final irony, note that the Code of Hammurabi, the ultimate foundation of common law, was actually civil (codified) law - quite the opposite of common law. In fact, its claim to fame (if I recall correctly) is that it was the first time that the law was codified instead of simpy relying upon traditions of what had been done in the past (as does common law).

I am beginning to understand the attraction of anarchy.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Codified law and common law almost always existed together. One could look at the Ten Commandments that way.

You did not have lawmakers sitting around passing laws all day long in the old days yet decisions had to be made about case and controversies including applications to new situations.

Oh, yeah. Forgot. Lousiana does not follow common law. It is mostly the Napoleonic code.
 

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Custer said:
Codified law and common law almost always existed together. One could look at the Ten Commandments that way.

You did not have lawmakers sitting around passing laws all day long in the old days yet decisions had to be made about case and controversies including applications to new situations.

Oh, yeah. Forgot. Lousiana does not follow common law. It is mostly the Napoleonic code.
A random aside and a question:

1. One of my favorite movie bits is in Mel Brooks' History of the World Part II where Moses is coming down the mountain with three stone tablets: "I bring you the Fifteen... Oops!" <crash> "The Ten Commandments!"


2. Under the Napoleonic Code my understanding is that criminal justice isn't determined under an adversarial system as it is under common law. Is criminal justice in Louisiana adversarial? Or has Louisiana now ditched the last artifacts of its French system to show its patriotism in the face of French opposition to the Iraqi War?
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't enough about Lousiana law to venture a guess.

It was always on the "other list".
 

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Custer said:
I don't enough about Lousiana law to venture a guess...
Hmm. Lack of knowledge never prevented me from stating something as fact.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Dzerzhinsky said:
Hmm. Lack of knowledge never prevented me from stating something as fact.
Yeah, I noticed that about you but I assumed it was due to leftist brainwashing in your youth.
 
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