[yosuthnmasa]

I know we've heard so much of this stuff that we're blue in the face. But, I got to thinking today about the sunset of the AWB and the possibility of it being instituted later. I'm feel at this point that it will sunset. If this does happen, we would hope that at this point nothing would be considered post/pre ban anymore. So, we all go update our "homebuilt" AK's and put flash hiders and folding stocks on. Then Kerry gets elected and we instantly are forced back under a permanent AWB. And, this ban is identical to the first. So, we go back to building our "non" evil AK's. One day, you get a knock on the door by the ATF and they check your guns out. They pick up your now "preban" weapons and say that you've broken the law by adding on evil features when this is now against the law. How do you prove that it was built before the ban.

I guess this could just as easily apply to guns that were made prior to the current AWB. How do those people who built 10 years ago prove that their guns are Pre-ban when many of us don't have registered receivers or anything that can prove the age of the weapon.

Should we be keeping records, sales receipts, of the parts kits? Or receipts from ACE for the blanks?

Maybe I'm not aware of all the laws that would be involved here and this is not a point that would need to be proved. Please fill me in.

 

[Trotsky]

A good point.

My plan has always been to wait until Sept 14, alter my rifles to the legal configuration allowed on this date, then bring in a Notary Public to witness me photographing each one, and date/notarize the prints.

 

[scubadvr]

Thats why I keep a log book of my builds. I can go back check out stuff that my aging brain now forgets. Anyway, I think you should serial number your home build and them log its build. Seems to me the burden of proof is on the government to show that it would not be a pre ban. If you want to get fancy daily lottery number as your serial number and add day month and year in digits as the last six digits.

 

[mbadboyz]

Hey Jack isn't the burden of proof on the people who bring the charges. How can anyone but me say when the weapon was built,and as long as I'm there only witness against me I plead the 5th,Right.

You have a strong point there! I would put a serial number on the build and then log it on the day the ban expires.

 

[Byg]

I know you guys like to build your recievers from blanks and all,but thats why I use manufactured recievers that are serialized..No doubt when it was made.
Plus if ya ever wanted to sell one I think it would be less hassle to sell..

 

[scubadvr]

Hey Jack isn't the burden of proof on the people who bring the charges. How can anyone but me say when the weapon was built,and as long as I'm there only witness against me I plead the 5th,Right.

Cephus, you are absolutely right! It is the governments burden of proof. I just want to wear a belt with suspenders if you know what I mean. If I've gone the extra distance then I think I am well covered. The real reason for the log, at least on my part is because I am getting old and I like to try to take the best Ideas from my previous build and put time into my current one.

 

[scubadvr]

I know you guys like to build your recievers from blanks and all,but thats why I use manufactured recievers that are serialized..No doubt when it was made.
Plus if ya ever wanted to sell one I think it would be less hassle to sell..

Strong argument for a manufactured receiver. Jack

 

[Byg]

But then again, if I had a jig I am sure I would be bending them too!!!

 

[yosuthnmasa]

So, what we would hope is that they would have to prove this fact.

Use serial numbers on your own flats? If you went this route what would you use to score it deep enough?

I guess these are things that we really, hopefully, don't have to worry about until another ban is actually put in effect right?

Not being familar with all the laws and dates, we were able to build "manufacture" rifles prior to the passing of the AWB in '94 right? If so, how do these people who built prior to '94 prove that their gun was built prior to the AWB? What ever answer is given to this would probably be an effective way of protecting ourselves in the future.

 

[scubadvr]

Josh, you present an interesting question. If asked when did I get the kit to make the build I would respectfully decline to answer. Silence is the only alternative as lying to the Court brings greater problems. I would hope that records could not be introduced showing the parts that I purchased were either not produced or imported prior to the ban. For example, depending on which trigger group you use was the company in business prior to 1994, etc. My whole point was to make the correct information available to law enforcement to show that I have made a serious effort to comply with the law. I do not want to be in a situation where I find myself looking a an indictment and having to defend against a criminal action. Take it from me, I see it on the defense side, it is very, very costly in terms of money, time, and most importly, your health. Jack

 

[yosuthnmasa]

Understood Jack. I appreciate your words of advice. Sometimes during my lonely boring days at work I think of these hypothetical situations.

 

[likemopar]

Actually, the govt does not have to prove you made the item before the ban. It is an illegal item and it is up to you to prove that it is not. That being said, no prosecutor wants to waste time bringing you to court to look stupid after you waive the "proof".
Keep those records!

 

[mbadboyz]

WHAT THE .........

Let me understand this AWB. When this expires we will be able to let our stocks fold as long as we still maintain the compliance parts. The Ak's we built prior to the expiration of the AWB will still not be allowed?(to fold) Your saying the ones built this week, all we would have to do is make record of it being built after the ban expires or that day and were ok? Like putting a serial number on it and starting the number with the day the ban expires and then some odd #'s? What kind of records would we have to keep on the gun if the ban is activated again? The serial #'s would bail us out? Wouldnt you have to register it the day the ban expires just in case the law is activated again in the future? All I know is that I would like my preferred weapon(AK) to have a folding stock and be legal. Can anyone help explain this. I have confused myself in the process of writing this.LOL

 

[scubadvr]

Actually, the govt does not have to prove you made the item before the ban. It is an illegal item and it is up to you to prove that it is not. That being said, no prosecutor wants to waste time bringing you to court to look stupid after you waive the "proof".
Keep those records!

I must have missed something in law school. I was taught that you were inocent until proven guilty. Hmmmm.

 

[scubadvr]

Let me understand this AWB. When this expires we will be able to let our stocks fold as long as we still maintain the compliance parts. The Ak's we built prior to the expiration of the AWB will still not be allowed?(to fold) Your saying the ones built this week, all we would have to do is make record of it being built after the ban expires or that day and were ok? Like putting a serial number on it and starting the number with the day the ban expires and then some odd #'s? What kind of records would we have to keep on the gun if the ban is activated again? The serial #'s would bail us out? Wouldnt you have to register it the day the ban expires just in case the law is activated again in the future? All I know is that I would like my preferred weapon(AK) to have a folding stock and be legal. Can anyone help explain this. I have confused myself in the process of writing this.LOL

Read the AWB, when it sunsets, it is like it never existed. No law, no preban-post ban, no fixed fold, no more bad bayo lug, no more threaded barrel problems. The purpose of record keeping is help show how you complied with the law. When the law sunsets, you don't have to keep records, at least until the ass holes try to take our rights away again. Then it will be a new ball game from that point forward not backward. Jack

 

[mbadboyz]

Yeah...I think thats where everyone was getting confused. Very well put and I did find that on the site after further reading. Thanks for the help!

Mark

 

[scubadvr]

Mark, glad I could be of assistance. Even as a lawyer this stuff still gets confusing to me. Jack