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Discussion Starter #1
Guys I went ahead while ordering a center support bushing from Tapco, and got a set of rivets. I decided to go ahead and use them on my first build. However, after setting them in the rear trunnion, they barely expand past the receiver. I thought that they had expanded far enough over the edges too hold, but yesterday I found out that the most frontward one, had barely popped behind the receiver. I could hardly tell it happened. I was able to tap it back through the wall of the receiver, but of course it isn't very tight.The rear rivet is mushroomed far enough to hold though. What would your recommendations be to fix this. I was thinking I could, redo this rivet and the rear, but this would require shaving off both ends and removing the entire rear trunnion and then drilling out the rivets(PITA!!). Or, tapping the holes and screw into the existing rivets in the rear. Last, try to beat the hell out of the head some more to expand it. I don't know how much the latter will do though. If I screw it, the entire gun will be made out of rivets except for these. Sucks to get this far and have to use screws. But, grinding the heads off and hammering the rear trunnion out will be a pain too. Not to mention drilling the rivets out the rear trunnion. Your opinions would be great! Winn I know you've got a great answer for me this evening.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I guess I could mig weld over the edges, but I'll be damned if I can't get the welder to do much more than pop and leave nothing but a small drip of metal. If I hold it down, it does come out faster, but still will pop and interrupt my weld so it doesn't puddle up. I guess I may need to buy some flux core. It just aint working right without gas or flux.
 

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You should really invest in a gas bottle.. Flux core is ok at best, and not really good for the little work...
 

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:dunno: Duhh

I've some pound in, one way's, ordered but they're not in yet.

I'll send you some and you can see if they work.
 

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I'm really curious as to why they were too short, which they obviously were.

Is this a standard thickness receiver?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Winn R said:
:dunno: Duhh

I've some pound in, one way's, ordered but they're not in yet.

I'll send you some and you can see if they work.
I've resorted to filing down some of 1-Pats long rivets, which is a real PITA, because the thickness of them is larger than Tapco's center support bushing. I think I'm going to go out and buy some of those split sleeves from Lowes like you tried out Winn. That way I don't have to file them down. I'd like to try it out Winn.
 

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yosuthnmasa.......

Here is a print of the long rivet (everyone is waiting). Does your rivet measure up to this one? I believe the thickness of the ACE is .045". So just doing some very rough math the OAW should be around 1.340", which would leave .285" of rivet sticking out (using the print rivet) which should be more than enough to squish.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I listed the measurement for the Tapco center support rivet somewhere around here. Let me look for it. I don't have any more that I can mesure that arent in the receiver.
 

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yosuthunmassa,
I went through the same thing. Its not that they arent long enough its that they arent thick enough. They fit so sloppy inside the trunnion that when you crush them they loose all thier length through expansion in side the trunnion.
Go ahead and drill the head off both sides, slide the trunnion out and knock them out with a punch { they come out pretty easy be cause they are so un dersized}. Now call K-VAR or GLOBAL TRADES and order some long bulgarian or romanian rear trunnion rivets and you will have a proprerly installed rear trunnion.
I would advise any one considering buying a rivet set to go ahead and spend a couple of extra bucks and buy a set of rivets that were made soley to assemble AK's by the european manufactureors or some from the group buy{ havent used them but heard they are good}
70ss396
 

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I will conferm that 1pat's group buy rivets ARE good. even a bit extra long and that is great for me. I can make them shorter if I need to but makeing a short one longer is another thing. the longer group buy rivets are a life saver if you build a Romak111 believe me :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
HB, what would you recommend doing to fix what has happened with mine. One fits over the side of the receiver enough to hold. But, the other tends to separate from the receiver and the receiver wall needs to be pounded down to get it flush with the outside edge of the receiver. It will be a real PITA to remove the rear trunnion and then redrill the rivets out of it and then reinstall. Welding is an option, and I just picked up some flux core last night. But, I want tht weld I make to look nice kind of like the head of a rivet. This way Icould weld on top of the existing head and build up that material so that it is strong and cant be popped out. What do you think HB?
 

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I had a similar thing happen . maby not as short as you describe but mine was way too short to look rite. it looked more like a nail head than a rivet by the time I got it down tight. .... I put a drop of weld on it and hammered it down wile it was still hot. I did this with a T.I.G. it looked like a half round ball till I hammered it then it was cylinderical after hammering.
If you do this you could put on a drop of weld , hammer them add another drop of weld and hammer again if you need that much. better to do it twice that have your ball of weld get too big and spill over the side of the rivet.
As for dooing this with a MIG welder,,,,, I dont know about that,,,,, maby MIG with gas, I realy do not know. nouthing has the controle of T.I.G. ... You can controle heat, and rate of fill rod independantly, without seeing two puddels one molten metal and one flux.
Sorry for rambeling,,, :) if you are still useing a mig,,, HONESTLY I would cut a bunch of nails off put them in a vise cut end up and practise till you can get a nice ball on the end of the nail , reliably. heck even practise hammering them down , before you put the amps to your gun. I had great results dooing this, and it beat the hell out of pulling everything appart.
 

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sorry I missed the end of your post. so here I go again. weld a small ball and hammer it tight and flat , then add around ball of weld and all done looknig pretty good. BUT PRACTISE PRACTISE PRACTISE FIRST . if you bought new wire the other day , I highly recomend cutting 8 penny nails and get GOOD at getting a nice ball. get your amps and feed rate exactly ware you need it to get a very nice ball. I am not a MIG welder but I bet you can get very good results after you do a bunch. I get a very nice half round ball with a T.I.G. .. A littel buff and a drop of quick blue and all set.
 

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oh yes one more suggestion. when you need your arc to land in the rite spot the first time you need to see before you statr the amps. clearly you do not want the mask up so here is a littel trick.. use one of those $10 yellow 500 watt quartz construction lamps pointing directly on your work. It should be bright enough for you to see ware your feed wire is before the arc is started. this can prevent an ugly arc mark on your reciever.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hotbarrel said:
oh yes one more suggestion. when you need your arc to land in the rite spot the first time you need to see before you statr the amps. clearly you do not want the mask up so here is a littel trick.. use one of those $10 yellow 500 watt quartz construction lamps pointing directly on your work. It should be bright enough for you to see ware your feed wire is before the arc is started. this can prevent an ugly arc mark on your reciever.

I've got one of those masks that runs off a small watch battery. Basically, it is light green before the arc starts, and as soon as this happens, it instantly goes black. When the arc goes back away, it fades back to light green. So, I can see for the most part before hand. Great tip though. Until I got this mask, I couldn't see a darn thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Flux core wire is God's gift to man! I picked some up from Lowes yesterday and gave it a whirl this afternoon. Bear in mind, in the past I was using solid wire with no gas. I practiced on a small piece of angle iron and then jumped in head first on these rivets that barely poked throught the side of my receiver. On the first bead, I hit it right on the head and formed a very nice head. On the second, somehow, the bead actually began to form a bit to the left of the rivet. However, it is bigger and more raised than the first. If you look close in the picture you can see the right side of the rivet. After paint, I don't believe this will be very noticeable at all. Given the success I've had with the flux core in the MIG, if I had a weld pack I certainly would give it a try. I also practiced on a few holes that I drilled in the angle iron to see how easy they woud've been to fill.(I filled one before this with solid wire and had a helluva time). The holes filled up very easily and wouldnt take hardly any time to weld up. I am now debating on filling in the holes I made to screw my rails to the receiver. The only thing I lack is a belt sander to bring the weld down and make it smooth with the receiver. On my next build, I will probably "tack" weld the rails onto the inside of the receiver with the mig. Instead of holding the trigger down as long as I did on these heads, I will probably do it only half as long, and then come back with a dremel and nock it down a little.

Question, when I was practicing I put an initial bead down and then came back on top of it again. This made it just about the size of a real rivet head. Looking at the pictures, would you guys hit the head again to make it larger? The only thing I might jeporadize is screwing up the shape of the head by hitting it again. Look at the welded heads and compare them to the real heads to the left. I would love to hear you guys advice.
 

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I do not think I would mess with it any more , HONESTLY,, ,. in order to get that nice half round ball you need to flow the entire thing. this will mean reheating everything allready their and then putting in more wire. too easy for something to go wrong, HONESTLY. I think they look great as is. if you realy want to get fussy you could buff them out a bit before you finish everything. how did your test nails look .. try building up again on one of them. it will be hard to get an even ball or to prevent the ball from dropping off before it realy gets any bigger. you may end up with a ball on the side of a ball.
if you want bigger half rounds try a couple more amps and a faster wire feed rate. get in and out fast. the faster feed rate will take up some of the extra heat.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
HB, before reading your response, I went ahead and dropped a little more on the smaller of the 2 heads. It's head was a little rough and I wanted it smoother. Unfortunately, it did just what you said and kind of formed the edge of a ball at the wrong angle on top. Fortunately, I was able to file it down and fashion it so that it was smooth and a hair bigger.

Since, the rivet heads originally just barely broke the surface (on one it kept popping out and was at the same level as the outside of the receiver), I decided that I would practice on the flat side of a piece of angle iron instead. I drilled some holes to simulate the spot I wanted to build up and practiced on those. I also took a black magic marker out and marked spots and then built up the head on top of the mark. It was unbelievably easy. At the time, I wasn't sure how I would secure a nail and also attach the big a** clamp from the mig. So I went with the flat angle iron. I'll take some pictures of the angle iron and show you the progress on it. I really appreciate the advice you guys have given me! I honestly don't think I would've done it without the encouragement from you gusy. And with this much success with these fake rivet heads and considering how easy it was, I am beginning to get quite a bit more interested in welding. I'd like to try my hand at some tig welding!
 

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if you run a T.I.G. with a remote amp foot controll you will never want to run anything else. Talk about controll . varing amps. arc length. and wire feed rate. AS YOU WELD without stopping. pull the amps back before stopping and no dimpal at the end of the bead. put your feed rod in between the tungston and the part and the rod will take up some of the heat. on and on just so muck controle in your hand. :thumbup1: now lets talk water cooled collet handle
 
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