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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Heard an interesting story on the weekend about events in the Ukraine. Seems that at the end of a news broadcast on the government-owned TV station, after the news had reported that the Prime Minister had actually won the elections and that the opposition contending that the election was fraudulent was nothing more than a bunch of disgruntled rabble-rousers, the person who was signing the news for the deaf signed to the audience at the end of the broadcast:

"Everything you have just been told is a lie. The prime minister has lost the election and is trying to steal it. You will probably not see me again."

Tried to chase the story down and wasn't able to, but I did stumble across this website in support of the Ukranian opposition that I thought had some interesting stuff:

http://eng.maidanua.org/

I was also actually proud of President Bush. Putkin the Puke had said in a speech that other countries need to butt out of the Ukraine, an impliclit condemnation of the West's scrutiny of the demise of democracy there. Bush responded by saying yes, in fact all foreign countries need to butt out of the Ukraine, an implicit statement that Putin needed to butt out, too.
 

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........Yeah.......what he said.

Power flows from the barrel of a gun.
 

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Hopefully, the people of Ukraine can restore democracy and not chicken out and let the Facists push them around like people tend to do so often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
D.B.Cooper said:
Hopefully, the people of Ukraine can restore democracy and not chicken out and let the Facists push them around like people tend to do so often.
Yep, scary stuff. Hungary in 1956, Tienemen Square, etc., etc., etc., all have shown that standing up to incipient totalitarianism is a very risky business. Alas, I fear that were the same crisis to happen here folks would be OK with it just so long as they got to go shopping at the mall 'til curfew.
 

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Nevermind, I gotta learn how to read.:redface:
 

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Dzerzhinsky said:
Yep, scary stuff. Hungary in 1956, Tienemen Square, etc., etc., etc., all have shown that standing up to incipient totalitarianism is a very risky business. Alas, I fear that were the same crisis to happen here folks would be OK with it just so long as they got to go shopping at the mall 'til curfew.
Yer damn right. That and as long as they had resonably priced gasoline to get their Lincoln Navigator or Cadillac Escalade the 40 miles from their Suburban Ranch Style home to that mall.

Bread and Circuses.

It's always seemed to me that the key to any successful revolt is to get the majority of the military to agree with you, after that, then is simply a matter of preventing the power holders from escaping, or at least escaping with their assets. Then, after that, its just a big cheering parade up the capitol steps....

...to where I don the military uniform of indeterminate rank (w/ sash & peaked hat of course) and reflective sunglasses, and have a personal "football team" that all carry Krinkovs and tend to the disappearances of uncooperative ministers and lackeys, or orchestrate the brutal "terrorist attacks" that convieniently kill off popular personalities within the military and bureaucracy...

Muuhahahaha!!
 

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"Force shits upon the back of reason."
-Ben Franklin

edit: Rather Ben's alter ego Poor Richard, alot of good quotes from that almanac.
 

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The Odd Couple

Interesting topic.

Our friend, George Soros, is heavily involved in Ukrainian affairs. His investment has been with the reformers, who would open the country to international investment. Similarly, he was heavily involved in the Georgian election of 2000, which did the same. Many call Soros a "Misanthropist" and question the exit polls on which claims of election fraud were based. It has been alleged that Soros and other western interests financed those polls. The accuracy of exit polls was brought into question in America's recent election, and under simialr logic, it could be argued that George Bush stole the Presidency. See, The creation of the Ukraine ?democratic? opposition." (on World Socialist Website). Other socialists also protest Soros' involvement. For example, see, Nationalist Forums (Nazi Discussion Board). According to The Moscow News, "In the past, other American organizations like George Soros' Open Society Institute, Freedom House and USAid have "engineered democracy" through sleek campaign strategies that rely on psychological tricks (slogans, colors, advertising), professional organizers and lots of funds." Invisible Hands Muddy Ukraine Election.

Somehow, it is odd that George Soros and President Bush would share similar interests overseas - especially after Soros' vow to defeat Bush in the past election. Is his "Open Society" philosophy a kindred spirit to Conservative interests in open markets and free trade? Soros and Bush are an "Odd Couple."
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Good post, AClay, and great links.

I thought it was a sign of the weird times we live in that what's posted at the Nazi site is a Pravda article!

But, while I've been given to understand that the Eastern Ukraine is pro-Russian and that the Western Ukraine is pro-Western, I hadn't considered the implications of that: That the Ukranian elections (and others) can become a proxy war between geopolitical powers. Gives "bullets or ballots" new meaning.
 

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Isn't it more like a good example of "bullets or ballots"? Unless I am missing something here, which is quite probable as AClay and Dzer seem to have inexhaustable energy to consume information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Point I was trying to make, Gordon, is that we used to fight proxy wars with the Russians with bullets, it now appears that - at least from the perspective of some - we are now fighting a proxy war with the Russians using ballots.

But, within the usual meaning of the phrase, so far it looks like the Ukranians are relying upon ballots instead of bullets to have a revolution, just as we've been able to do for the past couple of hundred years or so.

I was interested to see that one of the links AClay posted was to a Nazi forum. The Ukraine was notoriously pro-Nazi during WWII, many of the guards at the death camps were Ukranians, and there were Ukranian contingents of the Waffen SS. Although, in their defense, if your alternative was Stalin I guess Nazism would have looked pretty good...
 

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Roger that. I spent a little time on those links. Man, talk about your unsubstantiated allegations. I hope folks use a little common sense and perhaps more than the proverbial "grain" of salt whilst reading that stuff. GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Gordon, the newspaper article linked from the Nazi forums is Pravda. Pravda is Russian for "Truth", so no need for a grain (or a pound) of salt.

Actually, looks to me like a bit of salt is required on both takes. You can't entirely discredit what's going on in the Ukraine as the results of manipulation by the dark forces of sedition instigated by outsiders - nor can you entirely discount that there has, in fact, been meddling from the West in the Ukranian elections.
 

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Discount meddling? Hell boy, you can flat count on it. :biggrin: GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
gordon gauge said:
Discount meddling? Hell boy, you can flat count on it. :biggrin: GG
Oops, yep. But in my post I kinda blew it and pointed only towards meddling from the West. You can be certain that Putin the Puke is doing all that he can to ensure that the Ukraine remains within the Russian sphere of influence.
 
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