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Can you imagine the nerve of this guy! I don't care what his nationality is or who started it after I read this (or before as far as that goes) But the part in this story where he said he didn't shoot at the second group because they where armed! Cut me a break. Why isn't the media making a big deal out of this idiot shooting unarmed men. The Marine will probably recieve stricter punishment then this clown will get! Ok, I'm done now. I'll shut up so you can read.

:rant:

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/top/story/0,4136,78130,00.html

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The New Paper - 26 Nov 2004[/size][/font]


[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=+2]I killed them because they called me a *****[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Asian living in the US tells why he hunted down & killed 6 people with rifle in deer forest* Offensive term for an Asian WHEN he found one victim still standing after he had fired several shots, Chai Soua Vang yelled, 'You're not dead yet?' and fired at him again.

Versions differ as to who fired the first shot but, if Vang is to be believed, his actions were sparked off by racial abuse.

Five people lay dead at the end of the confrontation. One died later and two others were injured.

On the second day of the nine-day annual hunting season in Wisconsin, Vang, 36, got lost looking for deer. The former soldier and Laos immigrant carrying a loaded assault rifle stumbled on a tree stand which happened to be on private property.

A tree stand is an aerial platform used by hunters to get a shot at passing deer from above.

He climbed onto the stand - a move that sparked off a shocking chain of events.

He was ordered off the stand by other hunters who appeared on the scene.

Vang's account of the shootings describes a wild scene in which he shot and killed five on the spot, reversing his coat from orange to camouflage and reloading his weapon.

At one point, he said, he stalked one of the unarmed men and shot him in the back as he fled screaming for help. One of the injured died later.

When he found one victim still standing after he had fired several shots, Vang said he yelled, 'You're not dead yet?' and fired at him again.

According to Vang, 15 minutes after he climbed on to the tree stand, he was confronted by Mr Terry Willers.

Mr Willers radioed others in his group and, soon, five more hunters confronted Vang. According to one of them - Ms Lauren Hesebeck, 48 - one hunter wrote Vang's deer license number in the dust on an all-terrain vehicle.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that Vang and the hunters agree that Vang began walking away, but details of what happened next differ sharply.

Vang said he told the group he was unaware he was on private property, but they surrounded him and allegedly assaulted him verbally with racial terms that included '****' and '*****'.

In his statement to investigators, Vang said he believed Mr Willers was the only hunter in the initial group of six with a gun and that after he walked about 30m away, he turned and saw Mr Willers allegedly point his rifle and fire a single bullet that struck the ground 9m to 12m behind Vang.

Vang said he removed the scope from his rifle and fired two shots at Mr Willers. He saw him fall to the ground. The authorities said Mr Willers suffered a gunshot wound to the neck.

The others ran towards their vehicles as Vang continued shooting. He said he saw two or three men drop to the ground.

Around this time, one of the hunters radioed for help.

Vang said that when he saw three more hunters approach in their vehicles, he reversed his orange hunting jacket to camouflage and reloaded his magazine with five or six bullets.

Vang said he did not shoot at the arriving hunters because they were armed. The hunters left shortly, taking the wounded Mr Willers with them.

He added that when two more people approached him, he began to run and, as the vehicle passed him, he claimed he saw the driver allegedly remove a gun from his shoulder. Vang said he fired three or four times at the pair.

Vang ran back to the initial shooting scene and found one of the hunters standing. 'You're not dead yet?' Vang asked the man. He said he fired one more shot at the hunter, but did not know if he hit him.



KEEPS RUNNING After that, he kept running and, at some point, decided he would not shoot anyone else and threw his remaining ammunition into a swamp, he told investigators.

Four hours after the shootings, Vang was arrested as he emerged from the woods on Sunday with his empty SKS 7.62mm semi-automatic rifle.

Ms Hesebeck's version, contained in the same statement, makes no mention of the type of language or verbal hostility, other than saying Vang allegedly used profanity at one point.

Ms Hesebeck, who was released from hospital after treatment for a shoulder wound, told investigators that Mr Willers shot at Vang after Vang allegedly fired first but missed.

The US authorities said that there was only one firearm among the eight hunters and it was not clear whether anyone returned fire.



ARMY SHARPSHOOTER Vang had spent six years in the California National Guard, and earned an Army Service Ribbon as a sharpshooter on the M-16 rifle, according to records released from the US Army's Human Resources Command.

The Ribbon is a middle qualification level for US Army trainees. Vang worked as a medical clerk and left the service in 1997, the records show.

Vang belongs to Hmong community which settled in large numbers in the Wisconsin area.

He went to the US 24 years ago and was part of the first wave of immigrants from Laos who went to the US after the Indochina war.

He later married, worked as a truck driver and fathered six children. He also learned to speak English fluently and became a US citizen.

Vang is being held in a local jail at the moment and will be formally charged on Nov 30 for the killings.

Residents of Rice Lake area, where the killings took place, donned orange ribbons in memory of the slain hunters on Tuesday.

Mr Tim Jubie, a car dealer for whom two of the dead worked, said neither would ever use racial terms or associate with others who did. - Wire services.



Hmongs & locals have clashed before TWO groups of Hmong hunters interviewed separately by the Pioneer Press, a regional US newspaper, claimed they have been on the receiving end of racist comments and threats. They also claimed that they had the tyres of their vehicles slashed.

They also claimed that they have been chased off public lands by locals driving by on their all-terrain vehicles and firing weapons into the air or trees.

Mr Young Vang, a Hmong, said of a recent weekend hunting trip: 'There are a lot of deer in Wisconsin, but there are a lot of people keeping us from getting the deer.'

He said his ordeal took place not far from the site of Sunday's killings.

Last weekend's incident involving Mr Young Vang's group was similar to a 2001 episode described by Mr Tou Vang, another Hmong hunter who claimed he and half a dozen members of his group were chased off from deer hunting by gunfire from ATV-riding landowners.

He said the incident occurred a few kilometres from the site of Sunday's fatal shooting.

The Associated Press reported there have been previous clashes between South-east Asian and white hunters in the region.

White hunters have complained the Hmong do not understand the concept of private property and hunt wherever they want.

The tension once led to a fistfight in Minnesota, and a Hmong hunter in Wisconsin had reported having at least two white hunters point guns at him.

Since the end of the Vietnam War, thousands of Hmong have come to the US as political refugees following the communist takeover in their homeland, Laos. More than 45,000 Hmong have settled in Wisconsin's neighbouring state of Minnesota.

Thousands of Hmong fought in a 'secret army' that the Central Intelligence Agency assembled to fight communism there in the 1970s. The US state department has granted them special visa consideration as an expression of US gratitude.

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Question..... Does Wisconsin have the death penalty?
 

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O.J. Simpson's "dream team" couldn't buy ol' Yang another day of freedom. Even if the whole Hmong community was foolish enough to support him, the rope awaits.

This "race card" crap won't play out in court, I smell an insanity defense.
 

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Cephus said:
Yea he was crazy to think he could get away with it. Now we have to spend at least 3million dollars of tax payer money to prove that he was the one that pulled the trigger.
Sad but true. With the overwhelming physical evidence and Yang's own admission I think the rope would be appropriate.
 

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The fact that he asked an unarmed person why he was not dead before shooting him should seal his fate. It shows clear malice of fore thought in the total absense of any perceived threat to himself.
 

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Chiroone, you are absolutely right. If he had a right of self-defense, it would have been against the single man who was alleged to have shot at him, no one else. I wonder how long it took him to remove his scope, aim and fire? If he was being attacked, you would think the hunter would have squeexed off another shot or two before then?

The story does not add up, anyway. If he was a lost hunter, then why stay in the tree stand? Where would he go with any deer he killed? Was he going to wander around the woods lost with a deer carcass?

I suggested days ago he was manhunting, not deer hunting. I hope there is a death penalty. As for an insanity defense, I don't see it, though it may be tried.
 

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AClay47 said:
As for an insanity defense, I don't see it, though it may be tried.
Oh, I don't see it working! It just seems that in such cases it's one of the first attempts of the defense .I don't know what else his attorney will be able to try if he doesn't plead guilty...don't really see much room for a plea bargain either but I'm no lawyer. He sealed his fate when he talked and it's a darn good thing. Imagine the speculation at this point had he exercised his right to silence?

No amount of racial provocation justifies his actions. At the very least it appears the media has chosen to run with the murders and his guilt rather than try to make this an "assault weapon" issue as they had at the start. It might be very interesting to see if he is linked to the other murder they're looking in to, he might very well be a serial killer.
 

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Evilwalks, sometimes the insanity defense is the only tool an attorney has. After all, isn't an act of murdering strangers insane? Still, insanity is not a defense in itself. In most jurisdictions, it must affect one so that he cannot determine the consequences of his actions and cannot determine right from wrong. Reacting to alleged racial slurs doesn't fit that. Still, Vang's attorneys have a duty to provide him with zealous advocacy, and they must provide sufficiently competent representation to avoid any conviction from being set aside on the basis of inadequate representation.

I suspect Vang was hunting "white" men to avenge real or perceived racial slurs, or maybe just for sport. Not many deer hunters use an SKS, because it's medium round lacks the stopping power of others, such as a 30-30. I would not be surprised if authorities linked him to other killings or missing persons.

The media initially tried to link the tragedy to the AWB. I heard on Fox News that possession of the SKS would have been illegal under Clinton's AWB. They noted the SKS fired the same round as an AK-47, as if that were extraordinarily powerful. With misinformation from a "conservative" network, we know the media will use the incident against the NRA and other Second Amendment groups. I read the description of "inexpensive but powerful semiautomatic rifle" several times. Some media has tried to correct it. See, i.e., SKS isn't classified as an assault rifle. Another artcle noted the SKS was not only a legal weapon, but it quoted one hunting authority as saying, "The SKS rifle is not one that is used often by deer hunters. It has an underpowered cartridge for most big-game animals. It lacks power.? USA Today.
 

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Cephus said:
Yea he was crazy to think he could get away with it. Now we have to spend at least 3million dollars of tax payer money to prove that he was the one that pulled the trigger.
I don't know how to avoid these multi million dollar trials, but there has to be a way. It seems that quite often the judges lose control of the courtroom and it becomes a circus of defense attorneys putting forth meaningless testimony and evidence in an attempt to overwhelm the jury. Our justice system needs to be seriously studied and revamped. :p
 

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We don't have many multimillion dollar trials in NC. Jury selection may take days, but not weeks, and Judges keep trials moving. OJ would have been tried in 3 weeks at most. Murder trials usually take about 2 weeks from jury selection to verdict. One DA in my County prosecuted two different jury trials at the same time in two different courtrooms! I asked him how he picked a jury so quickly. He said if a prospective juror's heart was beating, and he could hear that's all he required. His name was "Buzz Cole" - one heck of a trial lawyer.

A DA in a neighboring County despised insanity pleas. He had a knack for trashing defense experts with nothing more than withering cross examination. He didn't use experts of his own. Never lost to an insanity defense, but when one of our District's local Assistants tried the same, he lost one - BIG TIME! Had he asked for the proper jury instruction, he probably would have got a conviction, but bravado trumped intellect. In that case, a lone gunman killed about 10 people believing them to be demons. There was ample evidence that his insanity was self-induced by drugs, but the DA never asked for an instruction that a person's criminal acts are not excused by his insanity, if the condition were self-induced by taking drugs. It was the DA's preimary responsibility to ask for the instruction, but the trial Judge should have included it, despite no request. Every year, the murderer's case is reviewed to see whether he can be released from his mental institution. Just as regularly, his request for freedom is denied.
 

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122 jsp at 2200 fps should do any deer that walks, if you put it in the upper lungs and don't hold center the shoulder.

as for the ****, he should be publicly executed for murder. maybe shot in the back of the head in a football stadium. even chinese don't like gooks, and their cigarettes taste like garbage.
 

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justashooter said:
122 jsp at 2200 fps should do any deer that walks, if you put it in the upper lungs and don't hold center the shoulder.
I agree. I've always hunted with my military-style weapons just to prove they are "sporting rifles" and I'm not alone. (granted in Ohio it's limited to varmints and vermin) My 30-30 is a hair more accurate with 150gr. loads than all but one of my x39 foreigners but probably due to ease of adjustment on the sights. 170gr. bullets require more adjustment more than any x39 rounds per given rifle. Still wondering how "Yang" removed his scope as quoted, most SKS mounts are receiver covers. More forethought?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Evil_WalksII said:
Still wondering how "Yang" removed his scope as quoted, most SKS mounts are receiver covers. More forethought?
Good catch Evil, one that I had overlooked. Does make you wonder. Oh well, we will just ask the media, they've got all the answers.
 

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It was a Saiga with rails.
 

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Pogo said:
I don't know how to avoid these multi million dollar trials, but there has to be a way. It seems that quite often the judges lose control of the courtroom and it becomes a circus of defense attorneys putting forth meaningless testimony and evidence in an attempt to overwhelm the jury. Our justice system needs to be seriously studied and revamped. :p
Most prosecutors, if not all are also politicians because they have to be elected. Not always a bad thing.

However, in some cases I think the prosecutors get carried away with the show trial publicity potential and acually create the circus atmosphere. Big egos, need for publicity or even a larger agenda to move up to higher office.
Of course, some brand name defense lawyers contribute to the process as well.

A judge has tremendous power to control his courtroom. Some can't or won't for similar political reasons.

I have a relative who is a local common pleas judge. He is very low key and avoids publicity. I don't think he will get re-elected because the public does not know his name.
 

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DorGunR said:
It was a Saiga with rails.
For real or conjecture? I've missed the news the past day and a half, but that wouldn't surprise me at all. Still a factory 10 round rifle. Another thought, at least half SKS receiver cover rigs are co-witness types. We're not talking a super long range rifle/cartridge to begin with, with a human size target at short range whom I'll assume were standing or kneeling/squating) a miss shouldn't be too difficult to correct. I think the scope removal is just another hole in Mr. Vang's story.

It would be most believable that the initial police release and media interpretation led to naming the wrong firearm. If the police said "10 round, semi automatic 7.62x39 rifle" the reporter's first find would likely be the SKS. They've certainly been mistaken in the past, considering our population vs. the average gun owner it really doesn't matter what gun it was as long as it could be portrayed in a dark fashion.

I have a feeling one way or another this whole story will come out. JMO, but I don't think ol' "Yang" is a very intelligent man. I seriously believe he's capable of breaking down and telling it exactly as it happened. Probably after sentencing but somewhere down the road.
 
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