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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The question was asked on another thread. For believers, what makes you believe in Jesus Christ and not someone else?

From my own perspective, I have long been interested in the paranormal, even going so far as to visit so-called haunted buildings, although personally I have yet to see a "ghost" or "spirit." I have had some uncomfortable feelings. My interest mostly came about as a result of a scary encounter which I detailed on that other thread.

I have studied hauntings, possession, exorcisms, and other phenomena. I have read many, many books. I have watched factual TV programs, documentaries, and other factual videos on the subject. I have listened to radio talk programs concerning the subject. I now know enough not to ever "dabble" in that sort of thing. My interest is purely scientific and religious.

With particular regard to what some might call "demonic", particularly as it relates to "possession," I find it curious that the "evil spirits" concerned fear only one name: Jesus Christ.

I have never--ever--heard anyone claim from experience that they were able to cast out demons or rid a home of malevolent entities using any name but that of Jesus.

Now, I was already a believer before I began studying the paranormal. I believe the Shroud of Turin to be authentic despite claims to the contrary, because there are simply too many things about the shroud that would have required a lot of knowledge and effort to fake.

But it was this peculiar fear that evil spirits seem to have for Jesus that really confirmed my belief. Would powerful, supernatural entities thousands of years old and much wiser and stronger than any mere human quake at the name of someone who could not hurt them? Even those who object saying, "But couldn't the demons be deliberately playing the game to lead people astray?" Personally, I say, "NO."

I believe that these evil entities are far too arrogant to allow themselves to be humbled, even falsely, by someone they do not truly fear.

I know, I know, a lot of people will think I'm a nut that listens to Art Bell. It is undeniable that there is as much fakery in the paranormal is in any other subject. It is, however, very difficult to discount every case as "made up."

The best documented cases of demonic infestation or possession universally recognize that the evil entities were defeated only by the invocation and intervention of Jesus Christ.

The Bible indicates that the evil ones fear Him. It's nice to have this confirmed by actual anecdotal evidence.
 

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Your post reminds me of The Seven Sons of Sceva:

Acts 19 13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

The case her is that the 7 sons were not sincere followers of Christ. Thet were trying to make a name for themselves and be recognized. Well, they got recognition, by not like they were looking for.

Demon possession is not something to be taken lightly. While I have never personally witnessed one,I do believe they exist. Careful preparations must be taken to deal with them. But like the example above says, you have to have Jesus in your heart and not just on your tongue. The demons even recognized the name of Paul who was a devout follower of Christ. Dealing with demons will really show you what your made of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Preacher said:
Your post reminds me of The Seven Sons of Sceva:

Acts 19 13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

The case her is that the 7 sons were not sincere followers of Christ. Thet were trying to make a name for themselves and be recognized. Well, they got recognition, by not like they were looking for.
I knew you would chime in with this story, Preacher. Thought I'd let you have that. :thumbup1:

But I want to know what makes YOU believe!

One thing about your analysis bothers me, though. You imply that had they been true believers, that the demons would have responded to the name of Christ. My thinking is that Christ HIMSELF must intervene in a battle with demons, and that is why only His name is feared by the evil ones. In other words, you kind of imply that a sincere follower of Buddha might succeed in casting out demons if his faith is strong enough. If I'm reading too much into your post, I apologize. I'm just saying that it is not faith in Jesus alone that casts out demons, but His actual intervention.
 

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Why Jesus and not Somebody Else?

I don't want any of you to think this is a smart a$$ed answer but when I saw the title of this thread I thought..........because that's the way God wanted it.
 

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MAJOR PITA said:
I knew you would chime in with this story, Preacher. Thought I'd let you have that. :thumbup1:

But I want to know what makes YOU believe!

One thing about your analysis bothers me, though. You imply that had they been true believers, that the demons would have responded to the name of Christ. My thinking is that Christ HIMSELF must intervene in a battle with demons, and that is why only His name is feared by the evil ones. In other words, you kind of imply that a sincere follower of Buddha might succeed in casting out demons if his faith is strong enough. If I'm reading too much into your post, I apologize. I'm just saying that it is not faith in Jesus alone that casts out demons, but His actual intervention.
What I was saying is that if you have strong enough faith in God and Jesus, then you could cast out demons too, but it would still be the name of Jesus that did it. The demons recognized Paul, but Paul still used the name of Jesus. There have been others that have cast out demons besides Jesus, but it was still using his power. After Jesus was crucified and returned to the Father, he gave us power to do the things he did. Jesus even said we could do greater things than he did. That's one that just blows people away. But here it is:

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
 

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MAJOR PITA said:
The question was asked on another thread. For believers, what makes you believe in Jesus Christ and not someone else?
Tinfoil hat time...

My theory is that Jesus is a time traveler from our future.

In the future, time travel is perfected and, of course the first thing everyone wants to know is... "is the story of Jesus true?"

So, this guy dresses according to the time era he will be visiting, goes back in time and starts looking around.

Having basic (but modern) knowledge, this person is able to perform "miracles" such as "breathing life into a dead person" (CPR), "walking" on water (with floats or pontoons), feeding large numbers of people (dried food or MRE's?) and various other things.

Remember, the people of those days could only write about things they saw in terms of what THEY knew at the time.

What WE would call a "rocket", they may call a "chariot of fire", for example. Dehydrated food and a little water blossoming into a full meal would surely be a "miracle" to those who had never seen that before.

Then, this guy sees the oppression of the people by the Romans and tries to do something about it.

In desperation, the enslaved people latch onto him as their "miracle savior", thinking he can actually change things. After all, he IS able to do all these other "miracles".

But, the Romans don't want an intelligent troublemaker running around telling the people that they can actually fight back, so they plot to get rid of him.

Jesus gets betrayed, captured and crucified by the Romans. The Roman problem is solved and the time traveller never comes back.

It's possible...

OK, tinfoil hats may be safely removed.

Roger
 

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Major, I can see you have not had any experience outside your religious circle.

Throughout South and Central America and the islands of the Caribean cultures have mixed, those of the Spanish conquistadours and the African slaves. It is known as Santeria. All the Catholic Saints have powers and so do their counterparts African deities. They are asked to heal the sick and to rejoin former lovers among many things. Jesus plays no part in these rituals, He is however, the King , according to folklore. Only to the Christian Church and it's subsequent branches, Jesus is the only one with such powers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
aviator said:
Major, I can see you have not had any experience outside your religious circle.

Throughout South and Central America and the islands of the Caribean cultures have mixed, those of the Spanish conquistadours and the African slaves. It is known as Santeria. All the Catholic Saints have powers and so do their counterparts African deities. They are asked to heal the sick and to rejoin former lovers among many things. Jesus plays no part in these rituals, He is however, the King , according to folklore. Only to the Christian Church and it's subsequent branches, Jesus is the only one with such powers.
Remember, that even Pharoah's magicians had the power to perform "counterfeit" miracles. It's just that Moses could perform more powerful ones because he spoke for the true god, and not demons masquerading as gods.

I know that demons grant supernatural powers to humans and can perform fake miracles (like statues weeping, for example), but when pitted against the powers of Jesus Christ, He will always win.
 

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As I said Jesus is the king of Gods, He rules over all those other entities, but the entities have their own powers to do good when asked and many people from those places have placed all their faiths in the entity of their choice. Don't go too far and take Mexico, for instance, they attribute a lot of miracles to Virgin Guadalupe. We are not talking about "counterfit" or "fake" miracles here, just ask any devotee and you'll find out.

I've done quite a bit of studying of the Afro-Cuban religion known as Santeria and have witnessed some very interesting rituals with very surprising results, all from the scientific point of view and without scientific or logical explanation.

By the way, I do not favor any particular religion, I think they are all good as long as people feel good.
 

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Krupski said:
Tinfoil hat time...

My theory is that Jesus is a time traveler from our future.
that makes a bit more sense then him being the "son of a god"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
aviator said:
As I said Jesus is the king of Gods, He rules over all those other entities, but the entities have their own powers to do good when asked and many people from those places have placed all their faiths in the entity of their choice. Don't go too far and take Mexico, for instance, they attribute a lot of miracles to Virgin Guadalupe. We are not talking about "counterfit" or "fake" miracles here, just ask any devotee and you'll find out.
I'm sure there are a lot of good and devoted people who sincerely believe that they are praying to a "good" spirit when they pray to ancestors, angels, elementals, whatever you want to call them.

Furthermore, I considered the question for years as to how people could continue to pray to statues or disembodied spirits if their prayers weren't sometimes answered by SOMETHING.

But it is important to remember that the angels of the Bible, who actually represent the true God, NEVER allowed people to bow down to them or pray to them, even when those people tried. I believe that a true representative of the one, living, "Good" God, would not accept people's prayers to themselves, but would instead find a way, either through supernatural means or otherwise, to educate those people in a loving way that they are to worship/pray to/believe in God, not in them.

I believe that any spirit or person who accepts the worship and/or prayers that rightfully belong to God is automatically suspect, even if that entity is able to "do great things", including heal, do miracles, etc.

Remember, that the Antichrist will be able to perform great miracles even to the point of deceiving the true believers in God, and I believe that the scenario you've described is the "tip of the spear" of the Evil One's campaign to cause people to fall away in droves during the end times.

Preacher can quote the name and street address of the appropriate verses; I'm just speaking in general so that I can paraphrase my own beliefs.
 

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Are you trying to tell me that the TV Evangelists who perform "miracles" are the work of the devil then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
aviator said:
Are you trying to tell me that the TV Evangelists who perform "miracles" are the work of the devil then?
I would say that if they invite adulation of themselves, then maybe a person should be suspicious.

TV evangelists are a sore spot with me anyway. Not to hijack the subject of this thread, but anybody that takes money from blue-haired little old ladies in order to take an ocean cruise with some of the "big contributors" should be stripped and horse-whipped. None of us are without sin, but I believe people who preach are held to a higher standard than anonymous believers, and I believe Jesus will be very angry with some of these televangelists when the time comes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
aviator said:
Are you trying to tell me that the TV Evangelists who perform "miracles" are the work of the devil then?
I just thought of something else. It has been proven that may so-called televangelist "miracles" are in fact faked as well.

Although there is documentation that miracles are still being performed today, certain televangelists have been accused of "faking" miracles. I cite as examples certain ones who "miraculously" know personal details about people, only to be discovered later as employing a hidden earphone with a person in a booth reading the information to them.

Other so-called "healings" later turn out to be false.

I don't want to harm anyone's faith, but even Jesus said, "Take care that no one deceive you." I emphasize: NO ONE.
 

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MAJOR PITA said:
I don't want to harm anyone's faith, but even Jesus said, "Take care that no one deceive you." I emphasize: NO ONE.
Should we then question the books of the Bible. They were not written by Jesus.

If so, then the whole Judeo-Christian faith is a deception.


I'm sorry Major, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm trying to find an answer to an eternal question and a reason for me to change my 53 year old belief. If my one-liners border on insult, just let me know and I'll stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
aviator said:
Should we then question the books of the Bible. They were not written by Jesus.

If so, then the whole Judeo-Christian faith is a deception.


I'm sorry Major, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm trying to find an answer to an eternal question and a reason for me to change my 53 year old belief. If my one-liners border on insult, just let me know and I'll stop.
Honest searches for the truth are never insulting.

I'm probably not the one to answer all your questions, but I'll say what I can.

The books of the Bible HAVE been questioned throughout the centuries. Only the books of the Old Testament have remained virtually unchanged since they were written thousands of years ago. The Dead Sea Scrolls proved this.

The New Testament is a different matter. Most of the books were written decades after Jesus' death, and although they are divinely "inspired," you are correct that they were NOT written by Jesus. He is simply quoted extensively throughout the texts, and I believe He inspired the writers of those books to put down what HE wanted them to write, and not their own thoughts.

The truth be known, just what was to become the New Testament was hotly debated for centuries by the early church. One does have to have a little faith (there is no denying it) that the books that were eventually included were somehow inspired by God and the ones left out were not. Indeed, to this day the Catholic New Testament has at least a couple of extra books not included in the Protestant New Testament. The New Testament of the Eastern Orthodox Church does not even include the Book of Revelation.

Now, before you take this to be a justification to doubt the whole thing, keep in mind that even the Bible says, "We see through a glass, darkly..." which is a fancy way of saying that:

1. Take the perfect inspiration of God
2. Filter it through human grey matter, prejudices, etc.
3. Result is an inspired, but not perfect Word of God.

Just from my own perspective, I have read some of these so-called "Apocryphal" books that the early church leaders chose not to include in the Bible. I remember that none of them seemed to be up to the standard of the other books of the Bible. In addition, I've attended services of Ba'hai Faith and other religions, and they just didn't seem to have the same "spirit" as most of the Christian churches I've been to. They just seem to lack "flavor" or something.

If I can use an analogy:

Isn't it funny how you can immediately spot an Elvis imitator, but to most people there's no mistaking a recording by the real Elvis Presley?

All I'm saying is that some things can't be explained, and others have explanations that are woefully inadequate. Some things you just have to "know" in your heart.
 

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Major PITA said:
Preacher can quote the name and street address of the appropriate verses; I'm just speaking in general so that I can paraphrase my own beliefs.
1 John 2 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

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MAJOR PITA said:
None of us are without sin, but I believe people who preach are held to a higher standard than anonymous believers, and I believe Jesus will be very angry with some of these televangelists when the time comes.
JAMES 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Many TV Evangelists are fake. I know I may be undermining my profession in saying so, but the truth is the truth. Anyone that glorifies themself and not God is not sincere. Jesus fealt the same way, as he said many times in the Bible that God was higher than him. For example, when he raised Lazurus from the dead, he acknowledged it was God's power.

John 1140 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Not even Jesus took the credit for himself.
 
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