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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wait, wait, wait! Don't blast me, yet. I know the arguments. I thought Hillary care was a farce, and I've listened to complaints in England's Parliament about how there are more medical bureaucrats than hospital beds. I know Canada's system is turning into a joke. My wife works for a company which sends debtor letters to people who owe hospitals money, and quite a few of them are being mailed to the Great White North!

Still, the issue will not go away in American politics. Ever since Harry Truman, there have been promises of Universal Health Care. I'm sure we will hear it again in 2006 and 2008.

So, why not try it? Stop, don't get angry, please. Try it on a State scale, much as Arnold is doing with stem cell research in Kalifornia. Let one of the blue States try it, maybe Washington (near Canada!) or Kalifornia (always blue!). Does anyone think it will succeed? Personally, I don't, but it won't affect me, so who cares? If they can make it work, then we will follow suit.

If no Blue State is willing to try it, then why should the entire country convert a successful health care system into something else?
 

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I agree, lets get some Leftist State to try it first, and then when they go bankrupt we can laugh at them and use it to show others why it doesn?t work.
 

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This is an emotional , NON issue.

All the whiny , " Take care of me ", something for nothing crowd just loves to vote for the yahoo that promises "free" health care.

If you need medical care in the US YOU GET IT, PERIOD.

Workers have worker's compensation (shitty but still there).

Welfare folks have totally free healthcare.

Retired folks have Medicare/Medicaid.

Veterans have the VA (again crappy , but still free).

Military folks have the Military medical system.

Everyone else that doesn't have medical coverage through work etc , can still get treated. Go to the hospital and you get treated.

In the state of Ohio , EVERONE under 19 is elegible for free health care.

The rich get top notch care.

If you think worker's compensation or the VA is bad go to Britian and try their's you'll thank GOD for such great US programs.

PURELY EMOTIONAL , BULL SHIT ISSUE.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Government already exerts too much control of GNP and private enterprise. We have also seen what happens under Medicare and Medicaid. And Social security....whew.

No reason to give them more control if we wish to remain a capitalist economy.
 

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Mystic Knight of the Sea
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We've got far too much government involvement in our daily lives already. To think that Universal Health Care wouldn't take even more of our individual freedoms away from isn't sound logic. My choice is for individual responsibility for everything. :p
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Other than national defense, there is very little that big government does well.

And, when they fail, they never go out of business. They just raise prices.
 

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As Triangle 66 said, it's really a non-issue, the care has always been available. If you work for a living, you pay for it. If you don't work for a living, the guy that works for a living pays for it. If you think it's expensive now, wait till the Government gets their fingers in that pie. There is nothing so expensive as something provided by the Government for free! We're paying for it now, why add a huge list of ?government administrators? to the payroll. Besides, it's only a scare tactic used by the Democrats to garner votes from those that don't want to pay their own way.
 

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I believe Triangle, Pogo and Custer covered my objections to Goverment health care very well. I can add that when I was a supervisor at a large Company and hired 10 folks a month everyone was offered health care after 3 months. Many folks didn't want to spend the money. I understood the young guys (under 25) not wanting it but there were others that just didn't want to spend the money. Now why should you and I subsidize something they wouldn't spend their own money on? Lastly my wife works in a not for profit hospital taking CAT scans and I can tell you no one gets turned away if they are sick. She also sees many people coming here from Canada and some western European countries that get sick while here on vacation and they can't believe how fast they are taken care of instead of having to wait weeks for certain test.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Grendeljaeger said:
I believe Triangle, Pogo and Custer covered my objections to Goverment health care very well. I can add that when I was a supervisor at a large Company and hired 10 folks a month everyone was offered health care after 3 months. Many folks didn't want to spend the money. I understood the young guys (under 25) not wanting it but there were others that just didn't want to spend the money. Now why should you and I subsidize something they wouldn't spen their own money on? Lastly my wife works in a not for profit hospital taking CAT scans and I can tell you no one gets turned away if they are sick. She also sees many people coming here from Canada and some western European countries that get sick while here on vacation and they can't believe how fast they are taken care of instead of having to wait weeks for certain test.
The young guys, even if they have perfect health, are still at risk for breaking a leg or tearing up a leg in a softball game or any of life's risky and semi risking activities.

And, disease can strike even the young and healthy.
 

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Gunco Irregular
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Custer said:
The young guys, even if they have perfect health, are still at risk for breaking a leg or tearing up a leg in a softball game or any of life's risky and semi risking activities.

And, disease can strike even the young and healthy.
I agree, it is just I was more understanding of them than say a guy with 2 kids that wanted his beer money and figured you and I would pay for his health care.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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It is the same with retirement. Young or old, there are some that just won't do it and think SS is all they need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Do all Americans really get health care if they need it?

I'm not so sure.

If they do, then who pays for it?
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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AClay47 said:
Do all Americans really get health care if they need it?

I'm not so sure.

If they do, then who pays for it?
Me and everyone else paying taxes. All of us who and medical premiums at work or are under self insured plans.

The cost is passed on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Custer said:
The cost is passed on.
I suppose it is passed on in higher medical bills, increased insurance rates, and our tax dollars at work....

So, how much money are we the people now paying now for universal health care and health insurance premiums?
 

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The system we have seems to be the best in the world.

If someone is incapacitated or truely unable to pay for their medical bills I think that the rest of us need to kick in for them , should the situation be reversed , I hope that others would look out for me.

The Liberals paint the picture, "Conservatives are mean / don't care about anyone but themselves" , the true of the matter is that we just don't want Government invovled and make it worse.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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AClay47 said:
I suppose it is passed on in higher medical bills, increased insurance rates, and our tax dollars at work....

[/i] health insurance premiums?
It also depresses an employer's ability to grant good wage increases or any wage increase.

When costs go up 20-30% per year and the company has to eat all of that or a large portion of that, the wage budget is affected. Throw in workers comp premiums that are also driven by medical costs and you have a real mess.

Smaller companies (under 50 people) often quit offering coverage or have a core group of people with coverage and the rest are temps or outsourced.
 

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Code name: Felix
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Some European contries do have nationalized health care. Ever seen their hospitals? I had an opportunity to visit one in Spain...it's resources and practices leaves a lot to be desired. True, health care is cheap but quality health care can not be accomplished cheaply. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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aviator said:
Some European contries do have nationalized health care. Ever seen their hospitals? I had an opportunity to visit one in Spain...it's resources and practices leaves a lot to be desired. True, health care is cheap but quality health care can not be accomplished cheaply. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".
Seems like wealthy people from around the globe come to the US when they have a significant health problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree we have the best health care system in the country, and it is accessible to most, if not all. Still, there are problems.

From what I've read here, everyone's medical bills are being paid, either by health insurance, VA benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, Workers Compensation, tax write offs, and increased prices...

So, I guess a better question might be whether there is a better way? While working the polls Tuesday ... alongside two different Democrat doctors, I heard anecdotal complaints about how some patients cannot afford medications. A heart doctor said she paid for some patients' medicines from her own pockets.

Are we handling prescription drugs best? Canada exports drugs to us, which our tax dollars helped produce through research.

Another concern is the rising cost of medical malpractice premiums. I addressed that in another topic. A 2003 GAO report concluded from information supplied by insurance companies that increased malpractice premiums resulted from a declining bond market. Carriers, of course, are required to have reserves, but reserves can be invested only in the bond market, at least in most States. As bond returns have been diminishing and health care costs increasing, malpractice premiums have risen as well. Another cause of higher premiums was the business cycle. After reviewing data supplied by the insurance industry, the GAO said there was no comprehensive evidence that higher premiums were caused by increased payouts (from claims).

One factor not mentioned was the failure of licensing boards to police physicians. In one State, just 2 doctors accounted for the majority of malpractice claims.

So, there are many issues about how our present health care system can be reformed to make it better and more affordable.
 
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