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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been thinking about designing a ZK-9 "K" style weapon I'll call the "INFIDEL", with some of my leftover parts.
I dug out my ZK-9 [video=youtube;6GmD0EVPnug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GmD0EVPnug[/video]
I designed around a Russian Vityaz [video=youtube;7sPAPOhHKVk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sPAPOhHKVk[/video]



This would be kinda what the "K" model would look like. I think it's really cool looking.
 

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That looks cool to me!
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
My recoil rod idea is based off of this gun, but I'd like to use a modified HK93 style recoil assembly and cut down Galil gas tube.


I'm wanting to use a HK "K" grip and sights.
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)

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there is thread running on the weapons forum were there is discussion of a shortblow back pisotol . Im considering a custom bolt like the EOD but it will run on square stock rails or some thing an the bolt will install from the back via a removable rear trunion . I was thinking if dome right no guide rod would be needed .

htat second pick doan is a locking lug gun BTW . I pposted that same pin the other day on a differant site .

I picked up some polish unfinished front trunions the other day to use for these .
 

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I think I can shorten the recvier on a blow back in 9mm by about 4" in hte front with some careful planing .
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
there is thread running on the weapons forum were there is discussion of a shortblow back pisotol . Im considering a custom bolt like the EOD but it will run on square stock rails or some thing an the bolt will install from the back via a removable rear trunion . I was thinking if dome right no guide rod would be needed .

htat second pick doan is a locking lug gun BTW . I pposted that same pin the other day on a differant site .

I picked up some polish unfinished front trunions the other day to use for these .
Yes, I think they made a little over 20 of the "MASTER FLG" rotating bolt subguns, but from my understanding they never worked quite right and the project was scrapped.
I have my own bolt design I want to use.

 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I think I can shorten the recvier on a blow back in 9mm by about 4" in hte front with some careful planing .
Shortening the receiver is a big pain in the ass. (Get ready to pull your hair out.)
I know, I shortened the receiver on my 9mm AK.

The first prototype, I started out with a Draco and modified EOD 7.62X25 bolt. I reverse engineered my Vityaz clone from the it.
The EOD design couldn't be modified for my new shorter receiver and the manufacturer refused to do any design changes, so I was forced to design my own bolt. I timed my bolt to control out of battery fire and it has a spring loaded firing pin.
The EOD firing pin is free floating and stuck forward one time, causing a full auto mag dump. It was just too dangerous. I ended up spring loading it also.

This is my AK guru buddy bumpfiring the first prototype with a modified EOD 7.62X25 bolt.
[video=youtube;NkisKUQNB8A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkisKUQNB8A[/video]
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
My buddy (11C ABN) is shipping me a MKE SP89 take off barrel for my mockup and the handguard has been ordered from HKPARTS.
I think I can make the SP89 barrel work with a 22mm AK74 trunnion.


My "K" mockup is starting to resemble this a little. I'll use HK sights though. I also contacted SAMSON MFG. about a handguard that might work very well for this application. http://www.mountsplus.com/AR-15_Accessories/AR-15_Scope_Rings/SMC-STAR-MP5K.html
I'll have to wait to hear back from them and see if it might work or not.
 

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Shortening the receiver is a big pain in the ass. (Get ready to pull your hair out.)
I know, I shortened the receiver on my 9mm AK.
If an when, Ill be doing a bolt from scratch . It will need to be shorter from the bolt face to the back of the firing pin . the EOD biolt is designed for a standard spacing from the bolt fact the breach face it looks like .

What I have in mind will really likey only share the AK trigger group positon an the grip location .

If im going to build a blow back Im not going to try to make it look like a gas gun there is no reaosn for certain things if you dont need a gs piston an GB why have it?

like you mentiond you will ned a custom bolt to go much shorter easly . You dont need a 2/75 inch long trunion to hold in a barrel . so you can take some right off the front if you use a custom barrel mount block you can still leave the breach face inthe stock locstion an make the recvier about 1" shorter right off the bat . After that you move the mag back as far as possible an the shorten the bot as recured an then ove the trunion barrel back to were it will feed correctly .

IM working on a bolt idea my self If I get time an money ill build them .

how was the EOD bolt other wise was extraction OK ?
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, the EOD is setup for standard spacing, but for the longer 7.62X25 round, not 9mm.
If you want to use the 9mm round, you will have to determine the correct mag to barrel face distance for your application and change the bolt stop distance on the left side of the bolt.
If your using a full length receiver for a 9mm build, after you reset the bolt stop distance on the bolt, you'll need to mill the back of the bolt for your hammer timing.
(Your bolt just moved rearward after adjusting the bolt stop for the 9mm round.) That about the best I can explain it.
(You will understand once you start putting pieces together though).
The extractor on the EOD bolt worked good enough I guess, I just didn't like the design and went with a extractor more like what the Russians used on the Vityaz.
 

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you'll need to mill the back of the bolt for your hammer timing.
(Your bolt just moved rearward after adjusting the bolt stop for the 9mm round.) That about the best I can explain it.
(You will understand once you start putting pieces together though).
Yea Im a littel confused by what you mean by hammer timing . are you saying when modifying to go to 9mm the bolt is now hitting the hammer wrong ? i thing that what you mean ?

what mag well are you using ? it looks pretty clean an well done . you got some good parts to work with .

what extracter are you using ?

If I do this IM planing on doing a custom bolt from scratch . Im looking for the cheapest an easiest to make it work on a scratch built bolt .

ILL reinvent the wheel for the receiver an bolt recoil spring an front trunion but I would like to not have to reinvent a extracter set up an how to install it .

I was pondeirng a bolt that would travel overt the top of the rear trunion as it cycled like a standrard auto pistol. I would have no dust cover as the bolt would cover the recvier an I could just grap the end of the bolt to charge the gun like a 1911 pistol . this would also allow a way to get the weght over the pistol grip an not out on the front of the gun . it would only work for a pistol shot with out stretched arms like a standrd pistol as the idea of the bolt coming at your face would suck .

If I do this i want a shortend recvier . I figured I can go about 3.5" shorter pretty easy . i dont want a fake pistion with weigth on the front of the gun making it hard to hold up . Id wnat the weight of the bolt more to the rear . I can go with a guide rod or with out an run heavy custom lower rails .

Id like to be able to shoot this like a normal pistol with a 10 round mag if i wanted to . I expect to use both hands however . An yes it will take a drum :) if its a 9mm as i have a few sunomie drums . I dont have any 7.62x25 drums however . ;( I think I have a few pps 43 stick mags or something like that .
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Yes, your pretty close on hammer timing. Just think of it this way.
The TOK round is longer and you have to move the barrel rearward for the shorter feed ramp distance of the 9mm round.
I know AZhonkey did both calibers on a shared full sized platform with a UZI type barrel changing setup. I'd never do a TOK round on a shortened receiver, unless it was a sliding top like to described. I had a custom MP5 that shot that round and it's a HOT round.
At this time I'm leaving details out of this thread. People will be reading this and I don't want anyone making my gun before me.
I have over two years of my time in this project already. I left clues in the pics though.:biggrin:
Matt Yeamans did a very cool looking rifle conversion for a 9mm drum. Have you ever seen it? http://www.mygunsnorthwest.com/index.html
I also found this for you. [video=youtube;lZOw8znTyTQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZOw8znTyTQ[/video]

Tyler from SAMSON MFG. contacted me back with the measurements I needed.
The STAR-MP5K rail. It is about 3.7" long on the longer bottom rail and 2.5" on the left and right side.
Now I need to finish my mock up and see if it will fit.
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
The dust cover arrived and handguard.


Still not sure about moving the trigger forward via a transfer bar like the Master is done. If I did, I'd use a modified HK Navy style grip housing.


 

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Looks great so far Kenny!! Where'd you get those dust covers??
 

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HART SYSTEMS
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Looks great so far Kenny!! Where'd you get those dust covers??
I bought one on ebay and the other off a WTB forum ad.
Numrich had them at one time, but after I made this first gun they sold out.
 
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